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8.CHRIS
HEBARD
Chris Hebard is the founder and creator of
StillnessSpeaks.com,
a premiere resource on the internet aggregating the
text, audio and film of authentic contemporary and
traditional teachers of Non Duality and Self Inquiry
from within all spiritual disciplines. The website
reflects his enthusiasm and love of its material
The approach of StillnessSpeaks is integral; it does
not promote any particular path or methodology.
Chris attempts to honor the many paths available to
all Truth Lovers; in doing so, he hopes to
demonstrate that there is only one destination.
Chris writes, speaks and films on Self Inquiry,
advaita, and non-duality extensively throughout the
United States and Europe.
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INTERVIEW
Shunryu
Suzuki said "there is no such thing as an enlightened person, only enlightened
activity". If that is the case, then what are your thoughts on some of these
contemporary advaita teachers that charge exorbitant fees for the teachings?
Chris Hebard:
Be forewarned: I can only answer from direct experience, which may, or may not,
match with conventional wisdom. All that can be shared here is what has been
seen here.
Before we
start, understand that whatever is said here is absolutely valueless unless it
is congruent with your own discovery.
Let no
counsel replace the journey of direct experience thru self inquiry.
Here, then,
is this view:
Truth cannot
be copyrighted, nor is it a commodity.
How could one
charge for it?
At best, the
attempt at communicating the ineffable is an act born of love, to love and by
love itself.
It points at
what is: how do you charge for what you already are?
The charging
of fees normally implies consideration for the transfer of something of value.
In this
unique case of Self Inquiry, nothing is ever transferred.
Belief is
simply dismissed in favor of reality.
Clinging and
Grasping happen.
When they
happen, fear happens.
Then,
identity happens.
When identity
happens, there is multiplicity.
When
multiplicity happens, there is suffering.
When
suffering is entertained, grasping for approval, authority, exclusivity,
prestige, money, possessions happens.
This is the
"false and villainous vast world that cheats and ravages the minds of all people
(except the wise)"...that Ramana Maharshi refers to.
How, pray
tell, does one charge exorbitant fees for Self Inquiry, when wise?
There seems
to be a subtle odor lurking in the subterranean reaches of many sanghas today,
in the form of fees parading as donations, and in the form of criticism of
competitive teachings and teachers and, in private conversations, quietly
seeking approval or control.
Some might
say that how one behaves has nothing to do with the truth. I find it otherwise.
What is seen acting out is either congruent with what is known as true or it is
not.
Then if someone were to charge unreasonable or exorbitant fees for this truth
and were obviously amassing or hoarding wealth, not being charitable or
practicing dana (giving) with it in any way; what would this indicate to you
about this person?
Would it mean that they lost their enlightenment? Or that they were never
enlightened in the first place, or some other factor?
Chris Hebard:
Let me start with a working definition of the term, "enlightenment" for the
purposes of this discussion. Enlightenment is the clear and deep seeing that
what I am is not an object at all, I am no-thing. I do not exist--at all.
To a person,
"enlightenment" might seem like an event, set in time and space, but, it is not.
Such a view would be a hypothetical construction based upon a deeply held
assumption of the independent nature of the mind, body and world. It would be a
misconception to be expected. How could a person see it otherwise? The very
basis of the analysis would be flawed.
For this
reason, there is no such thing as an enlightened person; thus, there can never
be a loss of enlightenment.
If
"enlightenment" could be described as an "event', it would be an event which
occurs outside of time, space, and, normally, outside of memory. It could be
called the absolute confirmation of our eternity, beyond doubt itself. What is,
is, without limitation, shining in its own totality. It is, its own reality,
independent of objects altogether.
Some of the
confusion regarding "enlightenment" has to do with memory.
When
something occurs outside of memory, it does not mean it did not happen; it
simply means that the mind has no recollection of it.
And, this is
exactly the point: ultimately, the mind is not invited to this party. That is
not the same as saying that nothing was experienced--only that nothing occurred
to the mind.
When we drive
down a familiar road, we pass many landmarks, which we see every day. Yet,
should we think back to the drive earlier that day, we do not recollect
everything that we saw. Does this mean they were not experienced?
Turyia,
consciousness without an object, is the natural "state" and is actually
experienced all of the "time". It is the space between two thoughts, when
revealed in its glory.
What is
"mind"? For this dialogue, I would suggest that mind is mentation and that
mentation is the aggregate of sensing, feeling, thinking and perceiving. None of
these exist independently of awareness; thus, the body, mind and world can never
be seen as apart from consciousness.
We do not
experience objects; we only experience our perceptions of objects. The
experience of objects is an inference, an unverifiable leap.
Now, as to
your question: if a teacher acts selfishly or incongruently in any way, with
this understanding, what does it tell us?
This question
speaks to an apparent process, in time and space which follows initial
"enlightenment", a process which I refer to as "self realization".
It seems like
a sticky subject, because we are forced to acknowledge the relative as well as
the absolute view simultaneously. But, how could we entertain any sort of
conversation at all without such an acknowledgement?
And, for
better or worse, such is the truth of my experience: there is, in fact, a "post"
awakening process.
I would call
it a "cooperation" with what is. And this process is where the deepest and most
productive unfolding occurs. It is continual: it follows us thru waking, dream
and deep sleep states. It reveals the hidden substance of causal ignorance of
both the body and mind. It disrobes and uproots beliefs held so closely as facts
that they have, heretofore, been unseeable.
Like a
performance race car, bustling at high speed, "awakening" could be seen as the
disengagement of the clutch. This extracts the clutch from its gears, but it
does not stop its spinning, which only slows over time.
There is no
effort in this process of "self realization". As I said, it is more like a
cooperation born of the burning desire to know the whole truth.
Even if our
initial interest in truth was motivated by the desire for happiness; this stage
is something altogether different: this cooperation is driven by the deepest
desire to know the complete truth, to see the hidden mechanisms that allow
diversity to appear.
I am going to
give our unidentified "spiritual teacher" the benefit of the doubt; let's assume
that their intent is benevolent.
So, what does
the "spinning of this clutch" look like? In Vedantic literature, these behaviors
might be referred to as vasanas, or even more subconsciously, as samskaras--deep
impressions. For the purposes of our discussion, we'll simply use the term
conditioning.
This
conditioning might appear as a "burst"-- what we might call "negative emotions":
the feelings of anger, sadness, fear, jealousy, rage, depression, vanity,
greediness or loneliness that spontaneously erupt.
Or it may
display itself in a far more subtle way: the desire for recognition, approval or
control in business or at play.
Or the belief
that an object of any sort might actually have the power to make us happy--to
make us whole and complete.
They are born
of one common element; they are selfish. They are born of the belief, on some
level, that we are separate and there is a preferred way the world should
arrange itself.
Obviously, these subconscious thoughts are completely incongruent with the
reality of our direct experience; yet, however subtle, there they are.
This is the
evidence of a deeper confusion that remains after awakening; it demands our
attention. "Life" asks us, over and over again, "What is it you want most?"
For sure,
anything we want more than "enlightenment", we will get!
And, of
course!
We
underestimate the power of perception. The extroversion of the senses, and our
endless fascination with identifying with its perceptions, are a pattern as deep
as the belief in the body and world itself.
Like an
iceberg, floating within this sea of "spaceless space", deep conditioning is
discovered, beneath the surface, out of conscious view.
Simply put,
in spite of awakening, there is still some confusion at play.
The key is
that, by definition, even a whisp of these behaviors is incongruent with the
reality of oneness: the end to seer,seen and seeing as separate events. This can
only happen as the result of the true death of the closely held belief in the
imaginary inner self- the separate "me".
There is only
One or there is not. If there is only One , there is nothing to fear. Moreover,
there is nothing to want.
What is this
rush for inquiry to be "complete": to be able to smugly plant a flag and to
announce the summit with some false sense of finality?
I see no such
summit. I see no such point of view. I see only "endless enlightening". How
could God's infinite potentiality be anything other?
Each event is
our true sat guru, pointing to deeper and deeper beliefs that support that
illusion of diversity---until they don't point to anything at all.
They reveal
residual attachments and aversions: beliefs in separation still operating "out
of sight' reflected as fear and behaviors motivated from the desire for approval
and the need for control. They all reek of the rotting smell of belief in
separation.
Is the end of
our "imaginary separate self" just another belief--or is it something
fundamentally more?
If it is
true, how could our behavior reflect anything other than this ultimate truth?
Perhaps, the
greatest benefit of being in the company of a true teacher for extended periods
of time would be the student's ability to see intimately how he lives his day to
day life. By some act of Grace, I was given this precious opportunity-- in
spades. I will never tire of expressing my gratitude for it.
Its power
permeated my view at every level--birthing in me a keen sense of self honesty
regarding my behavior at any given moment.
Spending
large, uninterrupted periods of informal time, outside of satsang, in the
kitchen, "cutting vegetables', playing sports, going to movies and concerts,
traveling long distances, living in close quarters--both enjoying life but also
learning from its trials, I was shown how this teaching unfolds in everyday life
for a prodigy.
Life without
self --selfless living-- has a very distinct perfume to it. Its behavior
celebrates both as dispassion and compassion…. truth, love, humor, generosity,
beauty, charity and, most assuredly, selfless service.
It is said
that the best way to find oneself is to lose yourself in the service of others.
This is dana.
Why is this?
The answer is
discovered in the exercise of selfless service itself: in those moments of true
aid and compassion for "others", the desperate self defined illusion called "me"
disappears. What emanates in its place is the delicious, expansive odor of
happiness and freedom--it is unlike anything else.
At first,
these phenomena might be blamed on the activity itself; later, it is realized
that this happiness is actually "seeping" out as the un-identified "you".
Now, we have
not discussed the other possibility for our benevolent teacher- that his
accumulation of wealth is not motivated by self at all; it is only a temporary
reflection of the celebration of the moment. If you dig beneath the surface, I
am certain you will discover some who fall into this category…..
END OF INTERVIEW