INTERVIEW

NDM: I have some questions about Vasishtha. Do you know exactly what time period he lived in? 

Also if he was celibate, even though he was married?

Ramesam Vemuri: The two questions you posed re: Sage Vasishta cannot be really answered!

Sage Vasishta is said to be the son of Brahma, the Creator, born out of the ‘thought’ of Brahma.

As you know, as per the ancient Indian philosophical system, all creation is imaginary. As you work back any genealogy, there has to be a point when the first man has to be born without a human parent being already present. So it is said that the first few human beings were produced by the creator out of a mental process or His "thought."

Thus you can say that Sage Vasishta's age goes back to the very origins of creation.

The Sage was the Royal priest for several generations of kings in the dynasty of Rama, preceding him by 4-5 generations. Hence the Sage's life time extends to tens of thousands of years! Anyway, when they are all people created by mental thought process (almost like a dream), perhaps the wakeful spatio-temporal reference frame of our world may be inapplicable to them to speak about their time periods and life spans.

If, however, Ramayana is dated to over 7000 years ago (Mahabharata is dated to around 3000 b.c.), Sage Vasishta must have belonged to the 7th millennium b.c.

The Sage has Arundhati as his wife. The couple is the most revered and highly regarded in Indian customs even today. Sage Vasishta and Arundhati are identified as the stars Mizar and Alcor respectively in the constellation Ursa Major (popularly known as sapta RiShis in India).

NDM: Was he celibate, even though he was married?

Ramesam Vemuri: According to one definition of celibacy, if a man sticks to his one and only lawfully wedded wife, he is said to be a celibate. (Lawfully here means as per the dharma of the times).

NDM: So is it fair to say it was a myth or not? Did the rishi really exist in person, is there any other historical evidence of them?

Ramesam Vemuri: Well, the other evidence we have is the life story of Arundhati, the voluminous well known Advaitic text Yogavasishta containing Sage Vasishta's teaching of Vedanta to Rama, reference to Sage Vasishta in Ramayana, Vasishta being present in Dasaratha's royal court,etc. Hence, we cannot say it is all merely a myth.

In another sense, as per Advaita as you know, the entire world (you and me included) is not real and is an imagination only! So the Sage Vasishta was a real person, as real as the world.

NDM:  Yes, understood.  When you say, “According to one definition of celibacy, if a man sticks to his one and only lawfully wedded wife, he is said to be a celibate. (Lawfully means as per the dharma of the times).”

Was it always like this?  

Ramesam Vemuri: Yes,

NDM: What about the Brahmin priests?

Ramesam Vemuri: Yes.

NDM: I read somewhere that Arundhati was chaste, “In the Vedic and Puranic literature, she is regarded as the epitome of chastity". I take it this means being faithful only to her husband, but not abstaining completely?

Ramesam Vemuri: The concept of sex and sexual intercourse in the good old ancient days was something unimaginable for the present day generation.

When one talks of the times of Sage Vasishta, we have to consider how it was viewed in those days.

Sex for them was not a recreational or hedonistic pursuit - as people believe these days like "In my prime, I used to do it all the time; Now that I am old and gray, I do it once a day."

It was undertaken as a holy pious ritual done on select auspicious days after reciting special mantras exclusively for the purpose of getting an offspring. (The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (Part VI, Chapter 4) discusses Conception and Birth as Religious Rites). The offspring is supposed to help in the higher spiritual attainments of the father and his entire lineage after the father’s death. When once an offspring is born, neither the lady nor the man would think of sex - even thoughts related to it were reprobated and would call for penance / self-mortification.

I think even Yogananda mentioned in his book, Autobiography of a Yogi (which is relatively recent), that his father slept with his mother only to get a child and not otherwise (he puts it in the words of his mother to his sister).

That being the case, we have to view the sex and sexuality of the Sages in the ancient times from altogether a different perspective.

NDM: Theravada Buddhists say you can’t attain nirvana if you are still having sex. This is why I'm trying to find out if the Buddha actually paid homage to the rishi if they were married and still having sex. It makes no sense that he would, if that were the case.

I read that  "In the Buddhist Vinaya Pitaka of the Mahavagga (I.245)[62] section the Buddha names these rishis, and declared the Vedic rishis "Atthako, Vâmako, Vâmadevo, Vessâmitto, Yamataggi, Angiraso, Bhâradvâjo, Vâsettho, Kassapo, and Bhagu"

But a Theravadin monk just pointed out to me this is in fact is not true according to the suttas. 

Ramesam Vemuri: About Buddha and Buddhists, I have no knowledge and perhaps you are much more knowledgeable. But I cannot understand why one would seek 'pleasure' through copulating with another body when that man has already attained Nirvana - by definition when a man attains Nirvana, he is ever happy within himself by himself and considers that there is no 'other' separate from himself (see Bhagavad-gita, II-55 re: sthitaprajna).

My emphasis is on “Atmanyeva AtmanA tuShTah.”

Below is the translation by Swami Gambhirananda and a part of Shankara’s commentary as relevant here: (http://ebookbrowsee.net/srimad-bhagavad-gita-shankara-bhashya-english-pdf-d356705117

“When one fully renounces all the desires that have entered the mind, and remains satisfied in the Self alone by the Self, then he is called a man of steady Wisdom.”

tuShTah – remains satisfied;

atmani eva - in the Self alone, in the very nature of the inmost Self;

atmana - by the Self which is his own – indifferent to external gains, and satisfied with everything else on account of having attained the nectar of realization of the supreme Goal;

tada - then;

ucyate - he is called;

sthitaprajnah - a man of steady wisdom, a man of realization.

NDM: When you said previously, “The couple are the most revered and highly regarded in Indian customs” Would this mean even more than a monastic? Or is that another matter altogether?