I am a former Anglican Monk, and Teacher of Non-Duality and Christian Mysticism. After a transformation as a result of reading The Cloud of Unknowing, My Partner and I were asked by the Dean of Lincoln to form a Contemplative / service Religious Community. I wrote the rule, and The Community of the Living Sacrifice was born. The Community worked with young Gay people, and we housed ex-prisoners, newly released psychiatric patients and the Homeless. As the Community was coming to a close, I discovered Ramakrishna, Sri Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. This revitalized the spiritual search, and in 1990 a final understanding occurred, and all seeking stopped. After about ten years, I attempted to "re-write" The Rule for the Community of the Living Sacrifice in Advaitic terms. After another decade, and a series of dreams where Nisargadatta appeared to enter the dream and indicated to me that I should share my understanding with others, I decided to start "teaching".
NDM: Can you please tell me about the transformation you had after reading "The Cloud of Unknowing" ? What exactly happened?
Bill Lindley: I was managing a downtown San Francisco Residential Hotel with my Partner John. We had just returned from an unsuccessful trip to England. Unsuccessful in that we were hoping to find work there, but we were forced to return. The Residential Hotel business was getting me down, and I was finding myself becoming harder than I recognized. While looking through a used bookstore, which is one of my favorite pastimes, I came upon "The Cloud". For those who are unfamiliar with it, it is a small book written about 1370, concerning Christian Contemplation. It was written, it is believed, by a vicar or monk in a very loving, but cautious style. It has always intrigued me that he is said to have been a country vicar or monk, possibly from Lincolnshire, as that is where we ended up in England.
Bill Lindley: I fell head over heels with this concept of going beyond concept. As a child I had had a "connection" with spirit. I always tell people that as a child I was convinced that, if God was all "they" said about him, then he deserves my attention. As an adult, at 65, I have come to the conclusion that I have had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome all my life, and as a consequence spent a lot of my childhood alone. This alone time was what I considered my "real" life. My school life was something to be endured. When I read "The Cloud", it opened again the possibility of recapturing that silent connection that beaconed unspoken. I was in love with Christ. I was in love with Spirit. "The Cloud" to me, was like someone coming to me with childhood's sweet understanding, and saying "yes, we believe you, look it's written here." I had to love that, and the possibilities it promised.
Essene Caves at Qumran
Bill Lindley: At that time, I saw Jesus as a story, partly true, partly message. But even before "The Cloud" I always felt an energy that the mind said was "God", but I felt it deeper then the mind, in an indescribable, but very real way. I use the term "God" now in the conventional sense sometimes, but I view God as the "other" part of the "connection" when there is gratitude. Gratitude arises, and God and I arise with it as an "expression". All that really "occurs" is the simple movement of Love. God is as much of this "expression" as I am. Just as real, just as unreal. The "creator", the Absolute is Love. God is just an "expression".
NDM: When you say he was crucified for speaking the truth, do you mean the non dual truth, "I and the father are one", which was considered blasphemy by some of the orthodox teachers of his time? Bill Lindley: It was his behavior as much as his words that got him crucified. His triumphant arrival in Jerusalem, followed by bold action in throwing out the money changers in the Temple cost him dearly. Words accompanied by "living them out" is what cost the Christ his life. It is also what gave life to his words. This is the sign of a "true" teacher. The charge of blasphemy was simply a ruse to cover what was basically a political murder. Not a religious offence, but a threat to power. The Christ died for living out the truth in his life. This is what living for the truth is all about, a willingness to put it all down in an instant knowing that, that which is reflecting "life" is greater than the "reflection". NDM: What else makes a true teacher? What is the distinction with a false teacher? Bill Lindley: I don't like to judge teachers. I think if you find a teacher who is obviously making a business out of teaching, or who fails to live up to an inflated teaching is one to avoid. When you are saying you are a "teacher", or you are open to "teaching", you should be an example of the teaching personified. That does not mean you will not make mistakes. But when you do, or when you see a new interpretation of a "teaching", you will honestly say so. No teaching should be static. Love is not a static thing. Every day is the truth, every teaching must be for the present. I do not like the charging for spiritual teachings. I do not even like the asking of donations. It is a circular gift/responsibility to try to teach. I write to try to share this wonderful view because it is simply Love in expression. Don't we all want to share tears of sadness and moments of ecstasy? Teaching is not unlike whispering secrets of Joy into another child's ear, and being left with nothing but a giggle.
NDM: When you say he was crucified for speaking the truth, do you mean the non dual truth, "I and the father are one", which was considered blasphemy by some of the orthodox teachers of his time?
NDM: Why do you not charge for spiritual teaching, nor ask for donations?
Bill Lindley: have been given a gift of Grace, the fruit of Love itself. This fruit will only "propagate" if it is shared, not sold. If I was asked to go somewhere far to teach or hold a group meeting, I might ask for travel expenses and a meal or two, but only because I live on Social Security and can't afford to get around much. I would certainly want the most economical accommodations, or better yet, stay with some "seekers". It's not that I have anything against teachers who charge a moderate fee for books, or who need the fees to help them live. It's when "teaching" becomes a business and teachers live lavishly. I think the "job" of the teacher is to bring Love to life, and pass on pointers. This is a giving. A teacher should ask nothing of his/her students but earnestness. NDM: Can you tell me about your practice that cleaned out the attic so to speak? Bill Lindley: As a monk, and even earlier, I practiced contemplation. It's really not accurate to say that you "practice" contemplation, because contemplation, in it's proper sense, is a grace. But you can lay ground by emptying yourself. I still "practice" contemplation, but it has become natural and is part of the "flow" of my life. I would advise anyone looking for a "practice", to follow the self inquiry of Ramana, or Nisargadatta. In addition to that I would make the inquiry into "how to salute the formless being" mentioned earlier. But a silent "emptying" is really necessary.
Bill Lindley: have been given a gift of Grace, the fruit of Love itself. This fruit will only "propagate" if it is shared, not sold. If I was asked to go somewhere far to teach or hold a group meeting, I might ask for travel expenses and a meal or two, but only because I live on Social Security and can't afford to get around much. I would certainly want the most economical accommodations, or better yet, stay with some "seekers".
NDM: Sri Sankaracharya says that the student must be equipped with the four means of salvation: Viveka (discrimination), Vairagya (dispassion), Mumukshutva (intense longing for liberation), as well as Shad-sampat; the sixfold virtues of Sama, Dama, Uparati, Titiksha, Sraddha and Samadhana. What are your thoughts on this? Bill Lindley:I have read only one book by Sankaracharya, and am not an authority on his or anyone's works or theories. I never graduated from High School, and only attended a couple of years of college studies in pre-teaching and psychology. I understand those words because I looked them up. I agree that one has to have, or acquire the qualities outlined here, but I also think that "becoming as a "little child" says it in a way that many more will comprehend. Intellectual understanding is a wonderful thing. And some require a complicated "answer" before they will "believe". I described, in a blog I wrote recently, the view the young child sees of the sky. He has no comprehension of "atmosphere" or possibly even "blue", but sees the "sky" as it is, wordless and clean. This is what is meant by "becoming as a "little" child". The adding of new words, ideas and concepts does not help us "become" as little children. NDM: Traditional Vedanta says that you have to belong to a SampradAya, a lineage of qualified teachers in order to teach this. That you need to be authorized to teach and have studied with a qualified teacher to fully understand the many aspects of this. Learning original Sanskrit for one, knowing how to unfold the text, learning the scriptures by heart. Knowing to relay this knowledge. How to do the practice, sadhana and so on. They say that the teaching tradition of Vedanta is as important as even its vision of oneness because the vision is solely dependent on the method of handling the words unfolding the vision. Being that Vedanta, according to shankara, is a word which means to bring one to this knowledge. In essence they don't want anyone to get a distorted vision, or an unclear understanding. What are your thoughts on this?
What are your thoughts on this?
shankaracharya
Therese of Lisieux
Bill Lindley: When I look at the teachers that have influenced me, Jesus, Ramana, Nisargadatta, Therese of Lisieux, Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, I find profound, but simple people. These Saints and Sages, largely uneducated, or minimally so, were educated in the "classroom of silence." While I would be the last one to criticize education, the key to "awakening", enlightenment, is not in the mind, but in the heart. None of these teachers left a "successor", although some may argue that point. These teachers pointed out that the teaching had to be an integral part of life. They lived, and died by their teachings. You can follow a teacher who has great knowledge of the scriptures, has followed a proper line of succession, and perhaps can even perform some kind of miracles or magic, but if his or her actions, life and teaching do not enter into your heart and transform it in silence, then it is just more "education" and not the awakening to Love that you seek. NDM: You said earlier that you feel that you may have had Asberger's syndrome, how do you feel non dual awareness can impact people with autistic or other related issues? Bill Lindley: I continue to have asperger's syndrome. It is not something that goes away, you just learn to cope. My experience has shown me that people in the autistic spectrum live in an alternate place much of the time. I believe there are real issues of separation and non-separation among the autistic. I think it would be valuable to study how autistic people view their world, what their perceptions are. Psychologists spend too much time trying to "teach" the autistic instead of learning from them. There is some work that is starting to be done.
None of these teachers left a "successor", although some may argue that point. These teachers pointed out that the teaching had to be an integral part of life. They lived, and died by their teachings. You can follow a teacher who has great knowledge of the scriptures, has followed a proper line of succession, and perhaps can even perform some kind of miracles or magic, but if his or her actions, life and teaching do not enter into your heart and transform it in silence, then it is just more "education" and not the awakening to Love that you seek.
NDM: In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says " the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty." What do you think he was saying by this? Bill Lindley: This idea of "sons of the living Father" is Jesus' singular way of describing this "relationship" of oneness. This idea that it is "inside of you" and "outside of you" brings in one point so often missed in Advaita. Jesus was saying that the manifestation is part and parcel of the unseen. So often in non-duality there is a negation of the body/mind as simply an illusion, when in fact it is a reflection of the whole. When I hear this passage, and the reference to "sons of the living Father", I think of the "sons" as being the "tears" of "God". The "dwelling in poverty" is the result of too much dwelling in self. Those that dwell in poverty/self are the sad tears of God. Those who know themselves to be God's love, are tears of Joy. All the tears eventually return to the ocean of Love from whence they came. NDM: How do you interpret this from the Gospel of Thomas? " am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there" Bill Lindley: The "light" that speaks here is the Absolute; Love. Love is the "creator" of the "objects" of it's expression. Everything arises and dissolves in Love. There is no "place", no "person" or "thing", just the "expression" of them and between them.
Bill Lindley: This idea of "sons of the living Father" is Jesus' singular way of describing this "relationship" of oneness. This idea that it is "inside of you" and "outside of you" brings in one point so often missed in Advaita. Jesus was saying that the manifestation is part and parcel of the unseen. So often in non-duality there is a negation of the body/mind as simply an illusion, when in fact it is a reflection of the whole.
When I hear this passage, and the reference to "sons of the living Father", I think of the "sons" as being the "tears" of "God". The "dwelling in poverty" is the result of too much dwelling in self. Those that dwell in poverty/self are the sad tears of God. Those who know themselves to be God's love, are tears of Joy. All the tears eventually return to the ocean of Love from whence they came.
NDM: How do you interpret this from the Gospel of Thomas?
Gnostic Gospels Nag Hammadi library
NDM: And this, "I shall give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard and no hand has touched, and what has not come into the human heart" . Bill Lindley: This is a reference to Contemplation. No eye, no hand and no ear can comprehend that which is "absorbed" in silent contemplation. This is possible only when "yoked" to spirit itself. It tells us to look even beyond the "human" heart into the heart of God, which is Love. NDM: Why do you think these Gnostic Gospels are not in the cannon? Bill Lindley: Again, I think it is for political reasons. While I do not have an extensive knowledge of the Gnostic gospels, I know them to be about finding "God", and your true nature on your own. I think the idea that the spirit might lead one away from tradition, perhaps even to a new revelation, is frightening to an establishment that wants to maintain control. This is very sad to me, as the established churches that practice contemplation and could be in the four-front of the non-dual "movement", are reluctant to allow any spiritual revelations that do not conform with church doctrine.
Bill Lindley: This is a reference to Contemplation. No eye, no hand and no ear can comprehend that which is "absorbed" in silent contemplation. This is possible only when "yoked" to spirit itself. It tells us to look even beyond the "human" heart into the heart of God, which is Love.
DM: How open is your church to the growing non dual movement? Bill Lindley: I do not attend a church at this time. The two major churches I attended, Grace Cathedral, in San Francisco, and Lincoln Cathedral in Lincoln, England, were both very similar. They were of a progressive anglo/catholic nature, but spiritually somewhat timid. They were both, large, "important" churches that often got lost in concert ticket sales over congregational spirituality. The reason I have not returned to the church is that I have not found one that is open to a widening spirituality. In the years since leaving the church, I have found my sense of worship satisfied by observing the rise and setting of the sun, and the desert rain. NDM: What do you think these Christian churches are afraid of concerning non duality? How would they lose control if this non dual truth became more mainstream? Bill Lindley: The message of non-duality is that we are all One. There is no "God" to worship or live in fear of. There is just this Love that is available to anyone earnest enough to seek it. The Church loses it's "representative" quality. As long as there is a "clergy" and a "laity", the "clergy" has control. In the Roman Church, the "clergy" are vital to "salvation", forgive sin, and are "God's" consecrated representatives.
This may be another reason why I do not like teaching for pay. No no one should stand before people as better, of higher rank or holiness and think that they deserve a reward for sharing what was freely given by grace. When we stand alone in our nakedness, then might we say follow me. I can not judge you higher or lower, as I am you.
Grace Cathedral, in San Francisco
NDM: How has non duality changed your views on traditional Christianity? Bill Lindley: When I returned to the church, I took part in a class on the "Jesus Prayer". This is a tradition in the Eastern Church of simply saying, as a mantra, "Jesus Christ have mercy upon me, a sinner. We were asked in this class, to make up our own personal prayer instead. The prayer I chose was "Father, my Friend, I Love you." This was to a "God", a Christ I did not yet know. Advaita led me in the direction where I asked continually, "if all is one, then why do I still love my "God". This is what led to my "awakening", this continually asking why I love. The "Father", the "Friend" vanished in the "Love you" along with the "I". My view of Christ's teaching has taught me, like that of Nisargadatta Maharaj, that the life that accompanies the teaching is as much or more of the teaching than the words of the teaching. By living the teaching we become the teaching. "To live is Christ, and to die is gain". NDM: What would you say is Christ consciousness? Can anyone have this? Bill Lindley: Christ consciousness is that which in the "trinity" would be the Holy Spirit. God the father and God the son are "connected" by this spirit. I often speak of the late Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins' description of the "incarnation". He wrote that God was "expressing" love for man to such a degree that he became "incarnated" as one. We are of the same substance as the "Christ", as we are Brothers to Christ and in Christ. Our fleshly "incarnation" is the same incarnation. It is the incarnation of Christ Consciousness, the Absolute. We carry it with us, but we keep it in a crowded attic behind myriad "mind stuff". The sacrifice, the sadhana if you will, is to clean the attic with earnestness, and make room for it.
NDM: What would you say is Christ consciousness? Can anyone have this?
Bill Lindley: Christ consciousness is that which in the "trinity" would be the Holy Spirit. God the father and God the son are "connected" by this spirit. I often speak of the late Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins' description of the "incarnation". He wrote that God was "expressing" love for man to such a degree that he became "incarnated" as one. We are of the same substance as the "Christ", as we are Brothers to Christ and in Christ.
NDM: Can you please tell me more about this awakening? What happened exactly? Bill Lindley: It's really difficult to talk about these things. People hear about your "experience" and they think they need to imitate it, or compare theirs to yours, when really the experiences themselves are meaningless. It's the "after effects" that show if a "change" has taken place. But I know we all like to hear about "awakening" experiences. I think another reason I am reluctant to talk about my "experience" is that on it's surface it is a little "cute", a little simple.
NDM: Can you please tell me more about this awakening? What happened exactly?
Bill Lindley: It's really difficult to talk about these things. People hear about your "experience" and they think they need to imitate it, or compare theirs to yours, when really the experiences themselves are meaningless. It's the "after effects" that show if a "change" has taken place. But I know we all like to hear about "awakening" experiences.
I think another reason I am reluctant to talk about my "experience" is that on it's surface it is a little "cute", a little simple.
I was sitting in our truck one rainy afternoon about 20 years ago, in San Rafael, California, after returning to management work. For years, as I said, I had made a mantra of the words from the Avadhuta Gita: "How shall I salute the formless being, indivisible, auspicious, and immutable, who fills all this with His Self and also fills the self with his self?" As I sat there, the rain stopped and the clouds parted. My eyes filled with tears, and once again the question arose, "how do I salute the formless being ?" How does an "illusory "I" love an "illusory" "God"? But this time, instead of simple loving silence, there came over "me" the absolute conviction that I was the love that flowed between this projected "I" and the projected "God" God, the clouds and I all vanished. This conviction has stayed with me. Events, sad and wonderful still roll on, but this conviction is rock solid. Love in action, even in apparent strife. NDM: Did this change you in any other ways, behavior and so on? Bill Lindley: It did two things. It took away any further desire to "search". I still loved to read the books and listen to various teachers, but that became a tearful experience, as any mention of "this" would arouse waves of love that could be overwhelming. Today, I am still brought to tears without notice. "Other's" lives appear as my own. I am drawn to service like scratching an itch. The second thing is that I lost all fear of the "future". My Partner and I had lived, as I like to say "on love alone" for many years, but after this "experience" the Love, the peace and quiet excitement became so real, so ever present that there was never any "doubt". I still "reason" and use conventional mind, but there is never any fear that I will be given more than I can handle. I have come to the state where every day is the day before Christmas, and the anticipated holiday is death. Troubles appear, and the solution appears with them. I have no doubt as I get older, more unavoidable pain will come, but I have no fear of not being able to endure it. NDM: How did your awakening impact others that are close to you? Bill Lindley: My ability to be at ease in emergencies, to think on my feet, was greatly enhanced. People who were having difficulties tended to come to me, sometimes without my having known them before. My Partner and my relationship has continually grown stronger, but living in the honesty of the moment, and realizing the responsibility of being an "expression" of Love, has caused us to lose all distinctions but the most superficial. NDM: What about your partner's understanding of non duality? Bill Lindley: John has been at my side since 1967. I have been much more "obsessed" by reading and studying all of this than he, but his ability to live in the "now" and "live on love alone" has been an inspiration. I love to talk non-duality and Love. He lives it every day. For more info visit www.spiritualnow.com
NDM: Did this change you in any other ways, behavior and so on?
Bill Lindley: It did two things. It took away any further desire to "search". I still loved to read the books and listen to various teachers, but that became a tearful experience, as any mention of "this" would arouse waves of love that could be overwhelming. Today, I am still brought to tears without notice. "Other's" lives appear as my own. I am drawn to service like scratching an itch.
The second thing is that I lost all fear of the "future". My Partner and I had lived, as I like to say "on love alone" for many years, but after this "experience" the Love, the peace and quiet excitement became so real, so ever present that there was never any "doubt". I still "reason" and use conventional mind, but there is never any fear that I will be given more than I can handle. I have come to the state where every day is the day before Christmas, and the anticipated holiday is death. Troubles appear, and the solution appears with them.
I have no doubt as I get older, more unavoidable pain will come, but I have no fear of not being able to endure it.
NDM: How did your awakening impact others that are close to you?
Bill Lindley: My ability to be at ease in emergencies, to think on my feet, was greatly enhanced. People who were having difficulties tended to come to me, sometimes without my having known them before. My Partner and my relationship has continually grown stronger, but living in the honesty of the moment, and realizing the responsibility of being an "expression" of Love, has caused us to lose all distinctions but the most superficial.
NDM: What about your partner's understanding of non duality?
Bill Lindley: John has been at my side since 1967. I have been much more "obsessed" by reading and studying all of this than he, but his ability to live in the "now" and "live on love alone" has been an inspiration. I love to talk non-duality and Love. He lives it every day.
For more info visit
www.spiritualnow.com
Dattatreya
Free from subject and object am I, How can I be self-realizable? Endless is my nature, nothing else exists. Absolute Truth is my nature, nothing else exists. Dattatreya
Free from subject and object am I, How can I be self-realizable? Endless is my nature, nothing else exists. Absolute Truth is my nature, nothing else exists.