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Aversion, Death, Rebirth, Vanity                        
 
AVERSION, DEATH, REBIRTH & VANITY

 

 
 

 

   4. JOHN SMITH

 

 

John Smith explores consciousness, worldviews, metaphysics, realitymaps and our infinite potential. For his blog, please visit www.nakedminds.org
 
He is also the author of the false guru test and Spiritual Marketing Techniques
 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW

 

 

John Smith: What great questions! These questions are so fundamental that they are really a more elaborate form of self-enquiry. Answering them (or at least attempting to) can be very freeing.
 
Before I give some possible answers, I would like to take a more general view so that the answers make sense. Once we see the general view, the answers become more obvious. But to just launch into answering or dismissing such questions, without an overview, will only cause confusion to readers stuck in conceptualisation.
 
A non-dual perspective is a very intimate one: it is right here in the heart of our being. There is no separation or distance to allow us to point out characteristics. This is why it is so difficult to describe: it is like a camera trying to take a picture of its own light censor, a censor that is intimately involved with every picture, and yet appears in none of them.
 
The questions you are asking are about different pictures or perspectives; but behind each one is naked awareness that gives them reality. And yet, the subject of those questions is, in this case, the naked awareness that illuminates them, and this is where difficulty in answering them arises.
 
Each question begs a story, an explanation. So each answer is another representation of truth, but not truth itself. This is not necessarily a problem, as the human experience involves many aspects, including dualistic aspects. And so representations of truth can be useful... but only when we ourselves have some direct experience of truth that allows us to have a “feel” for what is trying to be being represented, what the concepts are alluding to. Without that “feel” of truth, it is all just words. If we do not know where the words are pointing, we will construct fantasies around their normal meaning.
 
And so we come to the questions:
 
 
JS: Death is not a reality to awareness in this moment. And so this question is asking for a story. The mind spins stories, many of which can be profound. For example, the Tibetans have a whole rich culture based around an understanding of what happens to the mind after death. But even within that story there are exits when we realize our true nature, and the story stops. So we are not bound to even insightful stories about life after death. In this moment of awareness, we are eternal. It is the same with the story of Karma: the story stops when we drop identification with the mind because it too is a play of mind.
 
NDM: Is rebirth into a heaven, hell, human, animal, spirit, hungry ghost realm a reality?
 
John Smith: What do we mean by reality? Do we mean “ultimate reality”? Obviously not as the only ultimate reality is our naked awareness. Do we mean a fantasy that our awareness is illuminating? The thing about fantasy is that it has infinite possibility. Just look at the film Avatar with its amazing computer generated imagery. Anything is possible in that virtual world. And so there is no reason to deny any story. But all this is actually irrelevant if we have found truth. Back to our camera analogy: once we are fixated on the light sensor,  we stop caring about the subject of the pictures. They can be pictures of angels and ETs for all we care, but it doesn’t matter because we are focused on the awareness that illuminates the whole shebang.
 
NDM: Does an enlightened person fear aging, sickness and death?
 
John Smith: Enlightenment is our fundamental nature. Our person-hood, on the other hand, is contrived. So there is actually no such thing as an “enlightened person”. When the Buddha was asked who he was, he could give no identity except to say, “I am awake.” Of course, he was still a person because he had a mind-body, but one that had become so fixated on truth that his identity was no longer tied to that mind-body.
 
How fixated are we on our fundamental nature? Could we actually function in this world if our fixation was total? Most people who have awareness of their fundamental nature still have to function in the world, and so full fixation is not possible (at least not for a while). This means that the fears of our person-hood, such as the fear of aging, sickness and death, do not just leave us when we realize our fundamental nature. For realization is just the first step. After that we need to learn to fixate on this realization, a process which dissolves our person-hood.
 
Waking up is easy; staying awake is the tricky bit. It takes practice and commitment. It is all too easy for awakening to be co-opted by the ego so that persistent awakening becomes inauthentic. And one of easiest ways for awakening to become inauthentic is for us to become a non-dual teacher. So it is probably best for us all to remain students, but not to a specific teacher but to the awakening process itself. As the old zen saying goes: “If you see the Buddha outside of yourself, kill him.” If we remain stuck to a teacher year after year without awakening, something is wrong in the relationship.
 
So states of mind like fear don't just stop when we awaken. It takes a while after awakening for our minds to still once we cut off their oxygen supply of identification.
 
NDM: Would an enlightened person wear seductive clothing, makeup, have plastic surgery, (implants, Botox, liposuction), or even color their hair to appear younger, more attractive for their self esteem, or to attract followers, disciples/clients?
 

John Smith: It all depends on the motivation and identification. We cannot judge such behaviours because we are not walking in that other person's shoes. If those practices are motivated by identification with the body, then that motivation will keep pulling us away from awakening, although it is entirely normal to vacillate between awakening and falling back into the dream of person-hood. Remember, the tricky bit is “staying awake”. The big problem is when we experience awakening there is a tendency to try to grab hold of it conceptually, so that we then modify our physical and psychological appearance in accord with our new “awakened ego”. Too many people out there act awake once they experience awakening.

 
But all this is irrelevant for us because we can never know for sure, and so what another's motivations are is none of our business (unless we are trying to assess them as a teacher). Focusing on our own motivations and awakening is full-time occupation and we must not get distracted into guessing other people's states of mind, because to do so will pull us back into person-hood. This is because the act of judging behaviour for awakening conceptualises awakening, and that in turn blocks us from awakening.
 
We don't like the idea that people can fake something and get away with it. But we can fool the whole world regarding our awakening but we can never fool ourselves, not indefinitely. That is all that counts in the bigger picture. If we want to awaken, the only person we need to awaken to is ourselves.
 
NDM: How would you assess a spiritual teacher?  What would you tell someone to look out for if they were seeking a teacher?

 
John Smith: Choosing a spiritual teacher is just like choosing a romantic relationship. We think we are making rational choices only to perhaps find that we are with someone abusive or unloving... again! The fact of the matter is that there are many unconscious psychological factors that are running the show, and we are going to go ahead and make mistakes anyway. Try telling someone who keeps choosing inappropriate partners to be more rational and careful next time, and you will soon be in for head-scratching disappointment. Mistakes are repeatedly made until those unconscious psychological issues are brought into the light of consciousness. That is just how life works, and in itself it is an enlightening process.
 
We are driven by dissatisfaction with life – an inkling that there must be more – and usually we are pursuing conceptual remedies to that dissatisfaction. So we may think that gaining “enlightenment” will fix our problems and disappointments, and so we try to hang out with people who claim to be enlightened. The only problem is that we do not know what enlightenment actually is, and so we go for our concept of enlightenment, while all the time our unconscious psychological issues are running the show. We may choose the teacher with the piercing eyes, the long guru stare, the firm voice, the long hair, the exotic name or face, the one that talks in riddles etc. And onto that teacher we project all our fantasies about awakening.
 
If we are lucky, this person will be playing what Adyashanti refers to as a “shell game”. We are drawn to the attributes of conceptual enlightenment only to then be taught real down-to-earth enlightenment. But unfortunately most teachers, although they may have experienced authentic awakening, have not remained awake. Many now become teachers too quickly after awakening – they have not had the time to really settle – and this usually pulls them back into conceptual awakening. They may say all the right things but at the end of the day, they are getting off on the students' attention and subtly, or not-so-subtly, keeping them in bondage. As I have said above, if you are with a teacher year after year and are still unrealized, then you have the wrong teacher.
 
So how do we choose a good teacher?  Well, how do we choose a good romantic partner? If we there are too many unconscious issues in us, we are going to be driven to “choices” that may or may not be beneficial. But if we have worked through many of our issues, or have had enough life experience, we are more likely to make a wise choice because we no longer need the drama.
 
Today, people are waking up everywhere to what enlightenment actually is and I think that generally they are becoming more discerning with regard to spiritual teachers. And websites such as yours are a part of this educational process.
 
NDM: Would an enlightened person take sleeping pills, drink alcohol, take recreational drugs (smoke marijuana, LSD), or medication for mood control, anxiety, depression (Prozac, or Viagra)?
 
John Smith: There is no limit to what someone who is awake can and cannot do, for awakening is not a set of behaviours. Chögyam Trungpa, for example, was an alcoholic – but what an enlightened teacher he was! That said, as a general rule, once we are fixated on awakening, the desire for altered states of consciousness naturally falls away. This is because “normal consciousness” no longer feels restrictive. Again, we cannot really judge the motivation for someone who takes these substances, because to do so pulls us away from realization in this moment.
 
NDM: Would an enlightened person have an aversion to harsh or desolate living conditions, isolation, desert, jungle, forest, (excessively cold or hot weather climates), fear of wild animals, snakes, scorpions, bears, tigers, crocodiles, sharks and spiders?
 
John Smith: At this stage, you will probably see a pattern emerging with the answers to these sorts of questions. The enlightened state itself is beyond the conditions of our lives, but we still live in a world that requires some level of person-hood, and most who are awake are practising bringing awakening into every aspects of their lives. Nobody is perfect, or they would not be in a physical incarnation. (Another story of course.) So even though the presence of a snake or shark is irrelevant to “I amness”, it is relevant to a body that is wired for survival and will react with necessary fear. The trick is to learn not to identify with that fear, but just to allow it to be. But if we prematurely overexpose ourselves to harsh, desolate or fearful conditions, before we fully abide in awakening, then these will distract us from finding truth. The Buddha realized this with his middle-way approach. Life should not be a struggle so we remain in survival; and it should not be too easy so that we remain in distraction.
 
NDM: Can an enlightened person lose their temper, use foul language, or harsh speech, sarcasm, ridicule, make off color jokes?
 
John Smith: Anyone who has been around awakened people will know that anything is possible. Someone can be awake and a moron. (I wrote about this here: /www.nakedminds.org/2013/12-rudeawakening.html.) Again, there are no limits to the behaviour of someone who is awake, at least at first, although in time, that awakening softens the personality so that such behaviours tend to drop away. But there are no hard and fast rules.
 
It is very important for us to stop looking for “signs of awakening” because to do so objectifies what cannot be objectified. Experience it directly and forget about projecting it onto a teacher, no matter how much they fulfil the “awakened person” fantasy. It is not helpful to identify awakening outside of ourselves. It starts and ends in the centre of our being, and from there it enlightens the whole world.
 
NDM: You write:
 
Before awakening idiocy; after awakening idiocy.
Before awakening sexual predation; after awakening sexual predation.
Before awakening poor communication; after awakening poor communication.
Before awakening ill health; after awakening ill health.
Before awakening short temper; after awakening short temper.
Before awakening boring personality; after awakening boring personality.
Before awakening money-grabbing; after awakening money-grabbing.
 
And in much the same way:
 
Before awakening compassion; after awakening compassion.
Before awakening loving-kindness; after awakening loving-kindness.
Before awakening excellent teaching; after awakening excellent teaching.
Before awakening good health; after awakening good health.
Before awakening moral conduct; after awakening moral conduct.
Before awakening calm; after awakening calm.
Before awakening generous spirit; after awakening generous spirit.
 
What about stages of enlightenment?  Would these negative tendencies at some point begin to fall away with time? Or is this person stuck with them for life?
 
John Smith: Definitely the negative tendencies fall away with time, but there are no hard and fast rules as to length of time etc. Every enlightened teacher I have come across has some sort of blind spot somewhere. And that is okay :-) Most students just do not see those blind spots as they are too busy putting teachers on pedestals. But we are all human after all and the difference between an enlightened master and a student is not so great (fortunately).
 
It is better not to think in stages of enlightenment as this only engages the conceptual mind. The whole process is trying to disengage the addiction to conceptualization. So think of the path to awakening as a similar process to the path of giving up an addiction. We have remarkable lucid awakenings punctuated by great failings – we fall off the wagon – but we get back up and continue our practice. And in time, if we are persistent enough, the habit of automatically reaching for conceptualization is broken. It is an iterative process for most. And this process does change us psychologically as well, but only over time – usually many years. (Most of the best teachers took years to settle into their awakened state before teaching, which allowed their psychology to “catch up”.)
 
The mistake a lot of people make is to assume that enlightenment comes in one giant flash that changes them forever. This may be the case for a tiny percentage, but for most people, abiding in awakening is a process that can take many years. So the problem for people holding the “flash” theory of awakening is that when they do experience it, they assume their awakening is permanent and stop the processes that would, over time, change their psychology. If the psychology does not mellow over time then it is unfortunately an indication that ego has crept back in, something far more likely if we hold the “flash” theory of awakening.
 
NDM: Would an enlightened person make a legal disclaimer for their teachings, as to not be held responsible? (Please see example below).
 
John Smith: LOL!!

 

Example of a Non-dual Disclaimer
 
Here’s some small-print legal stuff that we are obliged to tell you – it’s for your protection as well as ours.

 

By using this website, purchasing or attending a one-to-one session, attending a meeting, satsang, or non dual retreat or otherwise engaging with (so and so), you acknowledge that you have read, comprehended and fully agreed with the following disclaimer.
 
This website is for general information and entertainment purposes only. Use of this website, or attending a meeting, non dual retreat or one-to-one non dual session with ( so and so ), or having an non dual email dialogue with him, is NOT a replacement for or substitute to face-to-face, in-person, qualified medical, psychological, psychiatric or legal advice, diagnosis or treatment. ( So and so ) is not a medical doctor nor a licensed psychotherapist. ( So and so) does not diagnose, cure, heal, or treat disease or psychological conditions or otherwise prescribe any kind of medication whatsoever.
 
If you think you are suffering from a medical or psychological disorder or condition, please consult your doctor or other appropriately qualified professional person or service immediately. You are invited to consult your doctor and/or therapist about one-to-ones sessions, meetings or retreats with ( so and so) in order to make an educated and informed decision as to whether or not they are right for you. IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING OR CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE OR FEEL THAT YOU MAY BE A DANGER TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS, PLEASE NOTIFY THE POLICE OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES IMMEDIATELY. Never, ever disregard professional advice or delay seeking professional advice as a result of something you have read on this site or from anything that ( so and so ) says or writes to you. ( so and so ) shall not be liable for claims or damages, and expressly disclaims any and all liability of any nature, for any action, or non-action, taken as a result of his one-to-one sessions, meetings or retreats.
 
The word “non dual counselling” here is not used as a medical term, but simply describes an in-depth, honest, exploratory, private and confidential conversation. Sessions with ( so and so ) may be considered “spiritual” or non dual in nature rather then therapeutic or prescriptive. A one-to-one non dual session, meeting or retreat is intended and designed to be informational and educational for you, and provide information, support and encouragement based on information what you choose to share with ( so and so). You are fully and solely responsible for all information that you provide to (so and so), for your interpretation of ( So and so') words and actions, and for all actions resulting from or relating to your encounter with (so and so)
 
(so and so) does not guarantee or warrant any particular outcome or result from your non dual session, meeting or retreat, or other kind of non dual encounter, with him, and makes no claims as to the effectiveness of the sessions.
 
Using ( so and so) services is entirely at your own risk without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including without limitation any warranty for information given, advice, or opinion. The services are requested by your own choice and with your inherent singular responsibility.

 

Thank you for your understanding.
 
End of disclaimer.

 

 
NDM: At the point of death and the break-up of the body, (see details here) what happens to the mind?

 END OF INTERVIEW