Jerry Wennstrom is an artist, author of "The Inspired Heart: An Artist's Journey of Transformation" (book and audiobook) and subject of Parabola and Sentient Publications documentary videos, "In the Hands of Alchemy” and "Studio Dialogue." He lectures and offers film presentations internationally and has written monthly articles for Inferential Focus, a New York City think tank and consulting firm. Many of his articles are featured in Mythic Journeys Magazine. And Jerry’s art is featured in the film Mythic Journeys. There is feature film based on Jerry’s life currently in production by Danish filmmaker Hans Fabian Wullenweber. The tower that he built on his Whidbey Island, Washington property and his life's story is featured in the book, Holy Personal by Laura Chester.  For more information see his web site at- www.handsofalchemy.com

 

At age 29, he set out to discover the rock-bottom truth of his life. For years he questioned the limits of his creative life as a studio painter. After destroying all of his art and giving away everything he owned, Jerry began a life of unconditional trust, allowing life to provide all that was needed. He lived this way for 15 years and then moved to the state of Washington, where he married Marilyn Strong and produced a large new body of art. Marilyn and Jerry’s charming Whidbey Island home is now filled with his unique sculptures and paintings.

NDM:  Your bio says, In 1979 Jerry Wennstrom was a rising star in the New York art world when he let go of his identity as an artist by intentionally destroying his large body of art and giving away his possessions. With this leap of faith Jerry embarked on a decade of wandering, listening, seeking, and relying on intuition and unconditional trust to guide and provide for him.

 

Can you please tell me why you destroyed all your work and what did that feel like at the time?

 

Jerry: Einstein says, “Matter never dies, it changes form.” If, as I suspected, art was beckoning  me/us (collectively)  forward in the direction of some greater formless experience, then the “matter” and attachment to the objects of creation would only change form and offer up something unexpected and more alive. This is what the experience of destroying the art did for me. There is no question that the act of destroying my art and giving everything I owned away involved a huge risk. I was very aware that my initial impulse might have been misguided or even insane. Realizing this, it required every ounce of courage for me to trust the small seed of intuition and higher sense of beauty I perceived, enough to give myself to the experience fully.

 

I sensed something important stirring within that needed my full attention. Fasting helped direct this attention inward, so I fasted for as long as it took for me to see what life was asking of me. I had no idea that the final expression of this focus would be to destroy my art and give everything I owned away. After a month-long fast, two choices became clear to me. I could keep doing what I was doing and continue to live as (what felt like) a fear-based idea of an artist, or I could give myself to some formless allurement that I can only describe as something that offered Life in full measure. Making this decision was not based on reason, so there was not the logical scenario guaranteeing some identifiable, beneficial outcome. With intuitive clarity I knew that these were my choices and I chose the formless allurement of life.

 

NDM: Can you tell me about the fasting that you did. What did you fast on exactly?

 

Jerry: I fasted once a week for about 10 years as recommended by Paramahansa Yogananda. I found it increased my perception and helped me go more deeply into my art.  Generally, fasting was water only. Fasting helped me get clear on what I needed to do. After letting go of my possessions, it was different -- I would eat when I had food and fast when I didn't. It was actually harder under these conditions.

 

NDM: What was this deeper understanding that you could not grasp at that time? 

 

Jerry: I sensed something was changing. I was intuiting that it was the end of a cycle where painting and art, no longer served me in the way it had. I felt the need to take things to the next deeper level but I didn't know what that level was. Feeling both the excitement and discomfort of change, fasting helped me get clear on where I needed to go. 

 

NDM:  How did you become interested in Paramahansa Yogananda? 

 

Jerry: Autobiography of a Yogi was probably the first book on spirituality I read as a young college student. Later I received the written lessons that came from the Self Realization Fellowship.

 

NDM: What did this self realization fellowship do for you? 

 

Jerry: The lessons offered some practical and helpful, information -- at all levels actually. The information almost had a mystical quality to it at times, in that when a lesson would arrive it would answer a question I happened to have. I believe Yogananda orchestrated it that way at some level. The lessons helped me to rethink and reshape my view of reality.

 

NDM: What kind of meditation were you doing; was it daily and how long were the sits?

 

Jerry:  Meditation was something I had been doing for some time -- not that I went about it in any structured way. I was never one for following a particular tradition. Yogananda's teaching helped some with meditation in the beginning. When I gave up the world that I had known and fasted so much of the time, meditation became indistinguishable from anything else I did with my time. Sometimes I would meditate for long periods where I felt I disappeared into meditative states. Meditation is so much like the inner experience of painting, where one swam in the territory of the unconscious.  After painting for so many years in the silence of the studio I felt I was primed by the time silence and meditation became a way of life for me.  Diving or easing into the depths at any time or place became second nature to me. It was in meditation that important breakthroughs came to me. Sometimes during my silent period (I hardly spoke for a year) people would come into my studio, sit in silence and leave. I was often surprised by some of the amazing things would happen for them and for me.

NDM: What do you mean by" breakthroughs would happen,"?  What kind of breakthroughs?

 

Jerry:  Epiphanies, moments that would blow-out any perceived limitations and/or small ideas of myself I might have been experiencing. They were moments that would take reality beyond the dualism that so often runs in the mind and inspire life anew. Sometimes a breakthrough might be of a more literal nature, like having an insight on how I might eat.

 

NDM: What kind of changes happened for those who came to see you? Can you give me an example of this?

 

Jerry: Often people would come in quietly and sit with me -- sometimes I would speak sometimes not. Once a very nervous woman came. I was fasting and extremely sensitive to people's energies at that time. Her distraction and agitation nearly overwhelmed me when she first arrived. In an attempt to be in her presence and not be swept away by it, I simply allowed myself to sink into a deep meditative space. It felt like forces greater than my own were pulling me into that space.  Once there, it was as if the room lit up. Then the woman let go of her agitation, began to cry, hugged me and left. I never said a word. I was learning as much about meditation and silence at that time as anyone who came to me.

 

NDM: What did you mean when you said that you "felt dead within yourself?  What was dead exactly? How did this feel? Was there sadness, fear, joy or relief?  What was the emotion attached to this feeling dead inside?

Jerry: There were times when I felt dead inside. I was fasting so much and had so little physical reserves that I needed inspiration to come alive -- that was a big part of it. But also, there are cycles where all of our strategies fail and we feel left alone with nothing more to do, be or give. Dead feels dead! It was/is a mix of feelings, which included hope because I always knew "the darkest hour was just before the dawn" -- I knew that the dark place was where the miracle came through. It was my ability to do nothing and hold that paradox of this condition that opened the way to the next inspired moment (and that remains so for me.) The Dead Zone is the place where all feelings exist at once – you could, however, also call it the Life Zone.

NDM: Did this sensitivity to energies leave you after you stopped fasting or is this still there?

 

Jerry: It is there in a more integrated and established way now. I am able to inhabit the territory quite naturally at this point. When I feel someone's overwhelming sorrow and the moment calls for silence, I simply go there.

 

A woman came here recently from a Seattle radio station to interview me. The weight of her sorrow and discomfort were so difficult to hold when she first arrived that I simply sat with her and said nothing -- even when she forcefully began the interview I remained silent. After being present with her in this way for quite a while she finally relaxed and began to cry. She then told me she had been battling stage-IV cancer. As the day wore on I eventually cooked a meal for her, prepared a bed and she spent the night. She awoke refreshed in the morning and we continued with quite a lively and joyful interview.

 

NDM:  Was there anything about the book "a course in miracles" that you feel may have had something to do with this shift along with the fasting?

 

Jerry: Yes, definitely – “A Course in Miracles” woke me up to the fact that we were surrounded by mystery and magic and the way most of us looked at the world was through the eyes of some limiting fix. This view of reality eliminated the potential for the miraculous to inspire our experience. This was radical wisdom that I ultimately embodied.  At first I saw the wisdom in “A Course in Miracles” as profound and interesting ideas. Eventually what I was receiving became a way of life. Even to the point where I staked my life on the intuitions I was basing my decisions on. Many of the stories in my book are about this kind of unconditional trust and the wild and unpredictable moments of redemption, and literally, at times, salvation.

NDM: What exactly did you learn from the Tao Te Ching ?

 

Jerry: If you boiled down all books of wisdom on the planet the Tao Te Ching would be the final extract.  I read the Tao Te Ching for years and still do on occasion. I learned as much as I could absorbed from an infinite source.

 

NDM: You briefly mention Ramakrishna in your book? At what point did you become interested in Vedanta? 

 

Jerry: Ramakrishna is The Man!  I loved everything about his life and his story. Actually, much later, when I was on a most desperate edge in my spiritual journey, I had a breakthrough involving a clear vision of Ramakrishna. I knew he opened the door to a place I could not enter on my own and I knew I didn't necessarily deserve to enter. It was a very important breakthrough and gift for me. I only wrote about this experience for the first time recently while working with Danish filmmaker Hans Fabian Wullenweber on a new feature film that he is making about my life. He recently asked a question that pushed me to write about the experience. I will share it here and you can use it or not.

I will also tell you one important dream/vision experience I chose not to write about in my book. There were also others but I will share this one with you.  I didn’t write about it because I felt my book was already too “out-there” for most people and I didn’t want to impose too much of the internal spiritual experience on my readers.  This story however, was one of the most powerful and liberating experiences for me-

 

 The Hindu Guru Paramahansa Yogananda breaks down the divine nature of the universe as being in two parts --  “God the Father and God the Mother.”  He basically said that God the Father was the taskmaster. He operated out of reason and demanded perfection in the form of accomplishment, sacrifice, discipline, and results – a demand impossible for any human being to meet. God the Mother however, loves us even if we fail in our attempt to do what is required by life. Clearly, we must somehow balance the attempt at perfection with self-forgiveness, humility and ultimately, surrender. I call the place we must inevitably surrender our “Holy Defeat.” This story is about that place and the gift that came through my own Holy Defeat.

 

Later in my journey, after letting everything go and doing my very best for several years to live the requirements of emptiness, I hit an impasse.  I felt, everything that I had given up and done amounted to nothing and yet I could do no more. With the impossible situation I found myself in, I also intuited and felt so very close to some perceivable, long sought-after goal. After several days of feeling overwhelmed with all of my failures and limitations -- exhausted and desperate, I lay on my mat and had a very clear vision. The vision resembled a living Tibetan Thanka. At the center of the Thanka was that perceivable goal which I could see, feel and intuit by not move into because of my failures.  Surrounding this center place were dark wrathful guardians that kept me from entering by holding these failures against me (God the Father.) The feeling of despair that came over me at being so close to something so beautiful and being denied entry because of my failures force me to surrender.

 

It was at this point of surrender that I saw a light-filled image of the Hindu holy man, Rama Krishna. He was someone who’s image I had meditated on. It was the image of him in his wild (some say “crazy”) state of Samadi.  I had read a good deal about his life and his teachings. With his image of light, the wrathful guardians disappeared and I felt the forgiveness of, what I knew to be, a Feminine presence (God the Mother.) It was a presence that loved and forgave my failures not because I deserved to be forgiven, but for no reason at all.

NDM:  Did you feel lighter as a result of this forgiveness?

 

Jerry: "Lighter" isn't the word! I felt the end results of all that I was trying to achieve. Something was delivered and I felt I got in the door against all odds. I felt like I had gotten away with my life. It remains the single most defining point in my spiritual journey. I can only describe it as a promise that came from the universe, via Ramakrishna.

 

It was/is that moment that overrides death in the cycle -- the promise comes through in spite of our shortcomings. It was the greatest indefinable gift and when all else fails it does not. I can't say much more about it. It happened to be Ramakrishna, for which I am grateful but I suppose it could have come through any deity. I loved everything about Ramakrishna and I believe that love brought him in to help me -- but who knows!?

 

NDM:  Did you meet anyone in person or talk to anyone? A non dual teacher of some kind?

 

Jerry: I only met Hilda Charlton briefly. My friend Deborah Koff Chapin brought me to see her once in New York City. Deborah would go to India and hob-nob with some great teachers and share her experiences with me. It seemed, that in my aloneness and silence, Deborah and I would arrive at the same breakthroughs -- her in India with great and interesting people - me alone in my loft, fasting and silent.

 

NDM:  What Did Hilda Charlton relay to you? Who was she?

 

Jerry: Hilda was wild!   www.hildacharlton.com It’s hard to say what it was, exactly, she relayed to me -- perhaps it was the sense that there was something greater than art and that the plans we make for ourselves and who we think we are in the world may have nothing to do with what God wants us to be. She demonstrated the power of pure BEING in the most outrageous way -- both by her actions and presence. Who she was and what she relayed simply overrode any idea of art and artist, which was my complete identity at that time.

Hilda’s Gift

 

 

My friend Deborah asked if I wanted to come with her to the Cathedral of Saint John the Divine in New York City to see Hilda Charlton, a woman I now believe was a saint. Deborah said that the healing work Hilda was doing with people was miraculous. Once a week, Hilda held spiritual gatherings at the cathedral and had developed quite a large following. Well over a hundred people often attended her inspiring evening gatherings.

 

               I went to see Hilda only one time. That night, Deborah arrived as scheduled. I wore the clothes I had been wearing in the studio all day. They were my “paint clothes,” a favorite old black cotton sweater and pants both covered with paint. When we arrived at St. John, we sat in the back of the large group that was assembling. Hilda got up from her chair and began to speak. She was mesmerizing and intense. I thought she looked and sounded like a witch. I was fascinated just watching her. She was a blend of creative theatrics, incredible chutzpa, and miracles. At one point, she closed her eyes and began talking about someone in the room who was hidden behind a veil. She said, “The veil is thin, like dirty black clothes. Don’t think the veil is dirty. It is not! I see a bright light ready to shine!” Then she shook off the trance-like state that she had spoken from. I felt her energetically before our eyes met. She looked out into the audience, and then very deliberately she turned and looked at me sitting in the back. I felt singled out, as if a spotlight had been turned on me. Then she bit a piece of candy in half and threw the remainder to me, saying, “Eat it!” So I ate it.

 

               Then she looked away and spoke to the group like a mother speaking to small children. In her nasal, high-pitched, witchy voice she said, “I have a story for you kiddies. Would you like to hear a story?” She told her story in the most comical way, poking fun at her own seriousness as a young performing artist. She had been a “doncer” (dancer) when she was a young woman. She danced for many years before being recognized and getting her big break. Some Hollywood producers gearing up for a new film were looking for a dancer to play a major part. They were considering using Hilda for the part. She was excited by the opportunity to land this major role. She arrived at the Hollywood set for her audition on time. A panel of stony-faced judges sat, waiting for her, at a long table. This was her big moment. For this occasion, she had made herself a special gown of what she humorously pronounced “shee-fone” (chiffon).

 

               Finally, she was going to show the world what a great artist she truly was. The music came up and her dance began. Dramatically, she took three steps back and fell right into a fishpond. She had not noticed it when she entered the room. “Those stony faces crumbled. They could not contain their laughter. They were laughing so much that no one even got up to help me out of the fishpond. I had to pull myself out, dragging yards of dripping shee-fone behind me.” She walked across the floor of the Cathedral, hilariously imitating the way she had dragged the gown. Then she said, “You see, I am here tonight with you because God had other plans. I went to India and studied with many great saints, and now I dance for God.” She did a comical little dance.

 

               Hilda did many things and told many stories that night. I was deeply moved by it all. When the evening was over, Deborah said, “She was talking to you, wasn’t she?” As we were about to leave, I wondered if I should go up and talk to Hilda. Hilda looked across the room, fixed her gaze on me, and said, “Don’t talk! You have all received what you needed here tonight. Quietly leave now and hold on to what you have received.” So we went out the back door of the Cathedral.

 

            I walked around the corner and found a canvas stretcher leaning up against the wall of one of the smaller chapels. The painting had been cut out of the stretcher, leaving a ragged edge where the picture once was. The combination of Hilda’s moving story and the destroyed painting gave me an intuitive feeling that I, too, would soon let go of my art form and my paintings.

 

NDM: When you said, "who we think we are in the world may have nothing to do with what God wants us to be."; what do you mean by God exactly? 

Jerry: I think of God as our deepest self, that which knows better than we do with our minds, ideas, or the persona we might create in the world who we are. God is that which I associate with the mysterious, magical experience in life.

 

NDM: How do you know this deepest self exactly?  What is it?

 

Jerry: Perhaps this is where a quote from “The Course in Miracles” comes in -- "You need do nothing but not to interfere."

 

It is that innocent open self that emerges when we can get out of our own way long enough to let it come through. When we can make this open space a way of life a completely unique expression emerges in the world that is our truest, most efficiently useful selves in the world.  For example -- I destroyed my art, one would think an act like that would eliminate any chance of touching the world as an artist in any significant way and yet I became more known as an artist and touched the world more significantly by destroying my art than I ever did by creating it. In other words, what I thought I was doing was quite different from what ultimately emerged as a creative expression in the world. When I let go and trusted my inner most promptings, a larger self than I had imagined came through.  You might say, my original idea of myself was too small and not what God had planned. Yogananda says, "To set out on any holy purpose and to die along the way is to succeed." That metaphoric "death" is the difference between an idea that leads to death and a reality that lives on. This essential mythos exists is the Christ story, the Buddha before enlightenment and in most spiritual traditions. There is something essentially true about the death/renewal metaphor in our human experience. 

  

NDM: Who were some of these great teachers Deborah hon-nobbed with?

 

Jerry: There was one main teacher -- Darshan Singh.  I believe she looked around a bit before finding him so there were others. He was married and some kind of government worker. He was considered a "householder guru " and had a large following. My path seemed to be going in a different direction. Deborah's and my paths were so completely opposite and yet we arrived at the same places within. It was uncanny and completely baffling to me. She wanted to have a family and be in the world and my life was clearly moving away from the world. I wanted my path to be the "right one" and yet I was never quite able to believe it was any more right than hers or anyone else's, which kept me appropriately humble.

 

NDM: What did Deborah share with you about her experiences and teachers? 

Jerry: She would mostly share her breakthroughs with me – the interesting inner and outer experiences she had in India. In our coming together, we both came so alive with the excitement of possibility. We were good friends and helpmates on the spiritual path.  I think we both felt that all was well with the world when we came together a few times a year and saw that our inner experiences and personal breakthroughs were both personal and collective.

 

NDM: What did you mean earlier about - these epiphanies would "take me beyond duality” and a new life? How did these epiphanies do that?

 

Jerry: It can be a creative idea or a moment of understanding about someone or some thing you couldn't understand before. It might have been a moment where two choices I may have been negotiating suddenly expanded out larger and a third, unseen possibility came through. It can often be a moment where things become clear and we come more alive and find healing in an abstract energetic way. Who knows how such moments come about -- it is the nature of inspiration to inspire.

 

NDM:  Many people have all sorts of epiphanies, experiences, glimpses, openings, shifts and interpret them in many kinds of ways.  What exactly became "clear" for you? 

 

Jerry - It depended on the circumstances -- sometimes a moment might make it clear for me to go right or left or stand still or speak or not speak... or destroy my art and give everything I own away! It all depended on where the evolving Big Bang was taking me at any given moment. Here's a story from my book:

Learning to Fly

 

I was helping a friend through a sad and painful divorce. He was moving to Florida, 2,000 miles away. He begged me to come with him and help him through the difficult passage he was facing. I had no place to be that was very solidly in place, but I was not sure Florida was where I should be. Because he was so insistent, I finally said, “Yes.” A few days earlier I had also been invited north to a home in the Catskill Mountains by the father of a teenaged boy who was alone most of the time because of another divorce. I had a special relationship with this boy and wanted to help and be there for him, but I was not sure that was what I should do either. While my friend took an afternoon nap in preparation for our drive to Florida, I babysat his grandchild, a sweet little boy named Jason, about five years old. We talked and played games while we waited for his grandfather to awaken.

 

            While I tried hard to be fully present with Jason, internally I was distracted and torn as to where I should go. I had said I would go to Florida because my friend was so insistent. I had doubts but I had decided to trust that insistence and go with him. It was difficult for me to say that I would do something and then change my position, but living the life I was living, I had to let go of absolutes. I could not pretend that I was in control. I had to constantly allow myself the possibility of an immediate change of direction. I felt that my life depended on it. I knew that if I made the correct choice within myself, everyone I was involved with would benefit as well. Feeling that I may not have made the correct choice, I was silently praying for guidance. Do I go north or do I go south?

 

At one point, Jason looked at me very seriously, took my hand, and said, “Jerry, come with me.” He wandered around a bit with me in tow. He didn’t seem to know exactly where he was taking us. He finally headed for the parking lot. He directed me to sit down on the hot blacktop in the Indian summer sun. I did. Then he looked up quietly at a flock of geese flying overhead. He looked for a very long time. Then he said, “See those geese? They are flying north to lay their eggs.”

               I flew north to spend the winter in upstate New York and care for a young boy!

 

NDM:   When you talk about your path?  Where did this path lead you?

 

Jerry: To speak of where it essentially led, I would have to say it led me to that liberating experience I spoke about with Ramakrishna - an experience that lead to some kind of assured entry into what I can only describe as a realm of awareness that was impossible to achieve on my own. There was also a similar experience that radically redefined my artistic vision, which I won’t go into but it was another one of those “grand finale” moments. Once such a gift is given it leads to an expression in the world that reflects the totality of our vision and purpose in life. It is an expression that is unique and personal, while at the same time it reflects the larger collective mythos coming down through the spirit of our time.

 “The Path” is everything that my life has evolved into and yet, the humble beginning of this evolution came with those small gifted experiences -- experiences that incidentally saved my soul at the time they came through.

NDM:   You say, "That metaphoric "death" is the difference between an idea and a reality -- the death along the way and trust in something larger wanting to emerge. It is the Christ story, the Buddha before enlightenment and something essentially true about our human experience."

So what is this the death of exactly and what is enlightenment?

 

Jerry: It is the death of the ego as the one running the show with ideas of how and what reality should look like. The above-mentioned gift I spoke about is also a promise. Once the template of salvation has been struck in the heat and vulnerability of battle, that salvation is assured in the continuous cycles of birth and death. I believe this is what Eastern spiritual traditions call “Enlightenment” and Christians refers to as “Eternal Life.”  It’s not something to be claimed exclusively by any particular religion – the awakening that has the potential to come at the moment of death is a gift that is universal! I would go so far as to say this awakening is an unavoidable requirement of our time if we are to survive.  It is surrender to that which IS.

 

NDM: What is the "IS?"

 

Jerry: "You need do nothing but not to interfere." 

The IS is what is in our lives, separate from our interference, with word, action or idea. Reverence is the way to see what IS -- assumptions and indifference to the mystery becomes the thing that blinds us. "What you see is what you get," as they say -- if we see only the least reflection of a smaller self hell bent on playing it safe then that small reflection becomes the fixed and boring reality we inhabit.

 

NDM: When you say that "The IS is what is in our lives, separate from our interference, with word, action or idea."  What do you mean by our lives, separate from our interference?

 

Jerry:  We can separate ourselves from what is right in front of us by believing that an idea of reality is more important than the reality itself. Isn’t that what denial is all about? "

 

Good" or "bad," WHAT IS is that which is dealt from the hand of God and is situated right in front of you -- you win the lottery, your child dies -- all of it places you in the best seat in the house to act on behalf of either, creation or destruction.

 

 NDM: What are the ways in which we interfere? 

 

Jerry: We interfere by not listening and/or responding appropriately to what we know is true. We can interfere in subtle or gross ways. Some of the grosser ways we interfere is by saying or doing something destructive, harmful and disempowering to ourselves and others, or we impose on the inherent innocence and truth of an ideology or word – as with Communist or Socialist or Terrorist. A person expressing the true essence of any of these ideologies/words could just as easily become the hero who puts others before themselves and saves the day for their people!

 

NDM:  Who or what exactly is separate from What IS?

 

Jerry: Republicans.

NDM: That's very funny. Going back to what you said just before this, what do you mean exactly by it is the Christ story, the Buddha before enlightenment?

 

Jerry: I was speaking about the deeper meaning of the metaphoric death experience. It is the place where only a quantum leap can save us, the place where we can do no more and must surrender into the darkness and unknowing in order for transformation to take place. The death/resurrection theme is in all things --  in the cycles of nature. Somehow we have come to believe we can exist separate from those cycles.

In the Western Alchemical tradition that Jung was so interested in later in life, the metaphor is represented by the conditions of "putrifaction" where there is death and decay and out of it comes transformation and "wholness."  Wholness being the union of opposites. Again, fully traversing the death experience is the only way to fully embody and inhabit the conditions of nonduality, as individuals and collectively. You might say, collectively, we are in that very process right now in our world where everything seems to be coming undone -- and it is. There are no better conditions to achieve an enlightened society than those we are experiencing right now. We can also die here if we don't become willing participants and allow the conditions of our time transform us.

 

NDM: When you speak of Jung and the process of internal alchemy, do you also mean the integration and the investigation of the shadow self?

 

Jerry: "Integration” would probably describe it best  -- the word implies some form of conscious participation rather than unconscious acquiescence, as with "a boat without a rudder."

 

NDM:  You mean like facing the shadow and not denying or suppressing it or avoiding it.  Bringing the un-conscious aspects of this into the light of awareness?

 

Jerry: Yes, so all that remains is the conscious, open innocence of our receptive Being  -- receptive to What Is Now and in each moment.

 

NDM: What do you think occurs if someone tries to circumvent this process?

 

Jerry: There is no circumventing it, only postponing it. Timing is everything -- when a person is called into the work there is no longer any avoiding it. Until this call comes in, we are able to follow the compulsions and allurements of the unconscious for a little while longer. Eventually the discomfort of our emerging consciousness begins to demand more of us. If we continue to avoid the inevitable we begin to create more useless suffering for ourselves. The Gods eventually up the ante and we are finally booted over into our own personal worst case scenario. This is not a bad thing -- in fact it marks the real beginning of the work we came on the planet to do. 

 

 

NDM: Do you think it's possible to be enlightened without having done this shadow work?

 

Jerry: No, but we can do something empowering, which is to turn into the shadow and become a willing participant in our own transformation. That is what Joseph Campbell calls "The Hero's Journey” The Hero finds the courage to respond to the allurement and promise he/she intuit is waiting for her on the other side of the shadow, says "Yes" and jumps right in!

 

NDM: Can you tell me, is there any type of method, practice or tradition that you used to do this shadow integration?

 

Jerry: Any spiritual or psychological tradition that you adopt and go deeply enough into will take you into the shadow work. You can also simply remain fully present with the personal challenges you face and that too will work.

 

NDM: Are you a teacher of this and what are your thoughts on charging for spiritual teaching?

 

Jerry: We all teach what we learn and we are all on the receiving end of the spiritual teachings that come to us through our own deepest intuitions. Charging for what comes to us, as a gift from the universe doesn't seem like it would work very well. There is an intimacy and deep level of trust that occurs with any true spiritual exchange between two people-- monetary considerations during such an exchange would be out of context.